d-chat for astro

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d-chat for astro

Postby wb4bsd » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:21 pm

Has anyone produced a chat client for P25 like they have for d-star (d-chat)?
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby smokeybehr » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:29 pm

wb4bsd wrote:Has anyone produced a chat client for P25 like they have for d-star (d-chat)?


I doubt it, other than the built-in TMS, since P25 is geared more towards public safety, where text messaging is not needed.
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby wb4bsd » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:58 pm

I just thought some over achieving ham might have written some code to allow for computer chatting over astro.
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby Mong » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:06 pm

wb4bsd wrote:I just thought some over achieving ham might have written some code to allow for computer chatting over astro.



Ha, the hams who worship astro think it's prefect, so why bother. There is finally something that is truly meant for ham radio, and many hams are turning their nose up at it.
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby Mong » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:47 pm

If I remember 100%, D-chat lets you send text between computers using the d-star radios as modems. That being said, there are quite a few things being introduced since I saw that demo last summer.
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby ka8ypy » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:11 pm

Mong wrote:If I remember 100%, D-chat lets you send text between computers using the d-star radios as modems. That being said, there are quite a few things being introduced since I saw that demo last summer.


You are correct, think of it as your own personal chat line for amateurs. If your buddy has D-Star and is up and operational across the contry in California for example, all you have to do is ping him to start the IM.
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby Mong » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:26 pm

ka8ypy wrote:
Mong wrote:If I remember 100%, D-chat lets you send text between computers using the d-star radios as modems. That being said, there are quite a few things being introduced since I saw that demo last summer.


You are correct, think of it as your own personal chat line for amateurs. If your buddy has D-Star and is up and operational across the contry in California for example, all you have to do is ping him to start the IM.



Ok, wasn't sure if it operated over the gateway because when this was discussed last year, they didn't have plans to connect to the gateway. They have, and also have 1.2ghz voice and data.


I could be D-star sexy for as low as $260, just don't have that much to play with for radio stuff right now. :cheeseandwhine:


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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby KD6NIG » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:56 pm

I do that already. Its called packet radio.

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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby Mong » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:59 pm

KD6NIG wrote:I do that already. Its called packet radio.

1200 BPS FTW!



Too bad you're not sending pictures with that :baby:



I've never actually used packet, should learn it someday as some of the ARES types still actually use it for stuff. Can it be configured in a real time chat window?
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby KD6NIG » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:09 pm

No, its old and text only.

Which makes it great :)

I still shudder sometimes when I think about how bad IRC networks are now. I remember the amount of crud people would try to send you 5 years ago. When I only had a 200k DSL connection.

Sitting on this cable connection I have now, I still wouldn't try it probably.

We actually have a pretty good packet network setup here now in Central CA. Not many people on it either, but you can, in theory, "connect" into Oregon or Nevada with a hop or 2.

I use the internet for picture sending though. Although I know ham radio is going high tech, I still tend to prefer the internet for that kind of stuff.

What scares me about seeing this though is the fact that most repeater users are mobile when they use them. Its bad enough to see someone holding up a cell phone to their eyes to text someone. Ham Radio operators doing that.......just makes the ban on mobile usage that much more closer.

I guess its cool, but I just don't like the integration. Course, its happened on packet too-just about any major BBS or node has internet links. I can connect to one here that (via IP) will connect me to a node in Texas (as an example) then I can fan out on RF from there.

I guess thats ok. Not like I could do it on RF like I used to 10 years ago. I remember talking to a buddy of mine via packet who lived back east. It was always cool to see the headers on the message to see how many hops it had to take to get the message to my local bbs. They were always listed with ! in between like BENCA!STCK!ESCL like that. There were times it would have been relayed through 20 or more BBSs to get to me. Not anymore.

I'm starting to sound like a pro-coder :)
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby KD6NIG » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:12 pm

Mong wrote:
KD6NIG wrote:I do that already. Its called packet radio.

1200 BPS FTW!



Too bad you're not sending pictures with that :baby:



I've never actually used packet, should learn it someday as some of the ARES types still actually use it for stuff. Can it be configured in a real time chat window?


To specifically answer your question, they supposedly have USB type "TNCs" that you can hook to a radio. Actually you're just piping the audio/PTT into software, which then emulates the "TNC".

I still do it the old way. KPC-3 TNC hooked to a 2m rig on 24-7. When I want to use it, I load the software to interact with the TNC. You can use DOS programs to accomplish that.

Its very simple, but thats why it still gets some usage sometimes. Radio, TNC, and a laptop thats 20 years old will work. As long as the thing has a serial port. :)
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby Mong » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:19 pm

Ok, well we have one at the EOC and if I can learn enough about how it works, I might try to get the thing running.


As for D-star and text/image, the locals are mainly interested in using it as a tool for emergency management assistance, and not texting while driving........ Then again, I don't know of anyone who is really involved with races/ares/skywarn/satern/anything else actually being one of the d-star users. Guess they blew their money on powerpoles (now where is my crimper)...
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby motorola_otaku » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:56 pm

RayRay wrote:I know a friend who interfaced an AS1 to IRLP, and his friend did the same, so they could talk around eachother's house and talk Astro over IRLP to eachother. Is that what you mean?

Boy, I'll bet that sounds wonderful, what with the double-vocoding with an IP link in between. :anus:

I would love to see a stripped-down :ham: version of Motobridge produced, where you could convert an IMBE data stream directly into IP packets and zip them through an internet connection to a waiting Quantar on the other end, without ever having to go analog. You'd still have to deal with latency from the internet connection, but at least you'd have the same IMBE coming out that you had going in.
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby KD8CPP » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:56 pm

Mong wrote:Too bad you're not sending pictures with that
I've never actually used packet, should learn it someday as some of the ARES types still actually use it for stuff. Can it be configured in a real time chat window?

KD6NIG wrote:No, its old and text only.


Actually, you can. I dont know what TNC/Firmware we're using, but we habe a statewide emergency packet system on 145.69mHz, and can use it anywhere in the state, with a decent base or mobile. In the next county over, on our highest profile tower we have a TNC that lets 40 people connect in and chat. I'll post a screenshot of it in the next couple of days.

There is a program called picturepacket, that is supposed to let you do SSTV over AX.25 packet, but I've never tried it.
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby KD6NIG » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:53 pm

Yeah they have chat servers that are part of BBS software. There is one around here somewhere too.

You can send pictures over packet, but unless they are small, its going to take quite a while to relay them at 1200bps. Maybe in the olden days it would work, but the average digital camera pumps out a pretty big image nowadays. You'd be retransmitting a lot unless you have a really good link, or the ability to reduce the file down without dropping the quality too much.

Not that I don't see the use of doing it over ham radio, its just that I have better methods. A wired cable modem, for one. I mean yeah, you have to test the stuff out to make sure it works, but still. I think in a disaster I wouldn't be wandering around snapping pictures for forwarding. I'd be assessing my situation and safety and well being.

I just have this fear that all of this infrastructure will be for naught when a major disaster hits because all the people with it will be using it-to help themselves, not the general public. Thats just a human reaction. We can all say we're going to pitch in when needed-but every human will take care of themselves first. Thats just human nature.

I see a lot of fancy equipment sitting idle or being used for personal use, not as its intended, is all. If thats the case, its just boys playing with toys-which is cool, just admit that instead of trying to justify it as an emergency communication need. Well, I can understand that too-the gov't isn't going to give you funding just for fun :)
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby KD8CPP » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:48 pm

KD6NIG wrote:I see a lot of fancy equipment sitting idle or being used for personal use, not as its intended, is all. If thats the case, its just boys playing with toys-which is cool, just admit that instead of trying to justify it as an emergency communication need. Well, I can understand that too-the gov't isn't going to give you funding just for fun :)


Amen,

We mostly do anyway. :baby:
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby punkasschump » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:03 pm

ka8ypy wrote:
Mong wrote:If I remember 100%, D-chat lets you send text between computers using the d-star radios as modems. That being said, there are quite a few things being introduced since I saw that demo last summer.


You are correct, think of it as your own personal chat line for amateurs. If your buddy has D-Star and is up and operational across the contry in California for example, all you have to do is ping him to start the IM.


Sorry, I think that's just an expensive AIM. why spend $$$ on equipment & use it when you can use AIM (or whatever instant messenger you fancy these days) for free? both accomplish the same end result except AIM utilizes LESS infrastructure -- less points of failure........ I think D-star is :xls:

just my 2 cents

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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby Mong » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:54 pm

punkasschump wrote:Sorry, I think that's just an expensive AIM. why spend $$$ on equipment & use it when you can use AIM (or whatever instant messenger you fancy these days) for free? both accomplish the same end result except AIM utilizes LESS infrastructure -- less points of failure........ I think D-star is :xls:

just my 2 cents



So I can use AIM between two computers without the internet? Because I can setup two d-star radio/computer combos and text info back and forth just fine without ever using the internet.

Everybody seems to think d-star is tied into the internet at every point, yet there are quite a few repeaters that will never be connected that way. It's a repeater, they are used for local RF all the time (except where I work where they tied the various TRSs and conventional repeaters with a VOIP system, but anyway)....
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby mancow » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:09 pm

What's the RS232 packet data in the ASTRO tab in CPS? Is there a way to configure a spectra or whatever as a modem?

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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby ka8ypy » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:37 pm

punkasschump wrote:
ka8ypy wrote:
Mong wrote:If I remember 100%, D-chat lets you send text between computers using the d-star radios as modems. That being said, there are quite a few things being introduced since I saw that demo last summer.


You are correct, think of it as your own personal chat line for amateurs. If your buddy has D-Star and is up and operational across the contry in California for example, all you have to do is ping him to start the IM.


Sorry, I think that's just an expensive AIM. why spend $$$ on equipment & use it when you can use AIM (or whatever instant messenger you fancy these days) for free? both accomplish the same end result except AIM utilizes LESS infrastructure -- less points of failure........ I think D-star is :xls:

just my 2 cents


We use it for the Marine Corps Marathon to pass non critical traffic or work out details that don't need to go over the voice nets we run. No internet needed either, as it just goes through the repeater. And all done from locations in the field that have no access to internet/network connections, yet we are still using an AIM like client. I use SNAK on my Mac.
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby escomm » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:01 am

Maybe. It's maybe.

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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby Mong » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:15 am

ka8ypy wrote:I use SNAK on my Mac.



I like that, it rhymes :baby:
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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby punkasschump » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:28 pm

Mong wrote:
punkasschump wrote:Sorry, I think that's just an expensive AIM. why spend $$$ on equipment & use it when you can use AIM (or whatever instant messenger you fancy these days) for free? both accomplish the same end result except AIM utilizes LESS infrastructure -- less points of failure........ I think D-star is :xls:

just my 2 cents



So I can use AIM between two computers without the internet? Because I can setup two d-star radio/computer combos and text info back and forth just fine without ever using the internet.

Everybody seems to think d-star is tied into the internet at every point, yet there are quite a few repeaters that will never be connected that way. It's a repeater, they are used for local RF all the time (except where I work where they tied the various TRSs and conventional repeaters with a VOIP system, but anyway)....


But isn't that the main selling point of D-star? having a "gateway" to other repeaters so they can use the glorified echolink interface on their radio to find their friend in japan or Australia etc? I'll never understand the hype over this redundant technology unlike P25. Now, if D-Star did true Mixed Mode, that would be a different story.

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Re: d-chat for astro

Postby Mong » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:20 pm

punkasschump wrote:But isn't that the main selling point of D-star? having a "gateway" to other repeaters so they can use the glorified echolink interface on their radio to find their friend in japan or Australia etc?


Not to me, and many others I talk to feel the same. If I wanted to talk to someone in another country, I'd be on HF, or echostink, etc....


punkasschump wrote: I'll never understand the hype over this redundant technology unlike P25.


I'll never understand the hard-on some get over P25. If you don't want anyone to hear you, buy a cellphone. It's not really advancing the art when you are using 5-10 year old radios.


punkasschump wrote:Now, if D-Star did true Mixed Mode, that would be a different story.


That could be seen as a big drawback to some, yet I wonder if it's really that big a deal. So instead of ten analog repeaters, joe can only listen to CW IDs on nine?


The two meter & 440 bands are dying more every day, so anything someone comes up with that gets people doing SOMETHING is good, but someone has to cough up the dough to put up repeaters. I have a 440 d-star repeater on a mountain about three miles that also has 1.2g data and voice. The same guys have a planned two meter machine that is going on another good site (1400' AGL).
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