NXDN?

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NXDN?

Postby KE7JFF » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:04 pm

As probably some you guys are aware, Kenwood and Icom have came out with a new joint standard for digital radio based upon the AMBE-II vocoder from DVSI called NXDN.

Now, the question is...has anyone gotten to work on the ham bands yet? :P
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Re: NXDN?

Postby motorola_otaku » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:09 pm

Sort-of dupe thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11553

Fuck NXDN and fuck TRBO. The LMR industry needs to get their shit together and settle on one digital voice standard, or Uncle Charlie needs to step in and mandate that they pick one. For that matter, fuck the 6.25 mandate too.. if Uncle Moneybags Charlie wasn't addicted to spectrum auctions we wouldn't need to cram people in that close together.
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Re: NXDN?

Postby Mong » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:18 pm

motorola_otaku wrote:Fuck NXDN and fuck TRBO. The LMR industry needs to get their shit together and settle on one digital voice standard, or Uncle Charlie needs to step in and mandate that they pick one. For that matter, fuck the 6.25 mandate too.. if Uncle Moneybags Charlie wasn't addicted to spectrum auctions we wouldn't need to cram people in that close together.




Eh, nothing like competition to make things interesting.


P25 might be fine when the feds are footing most of the costs but businesses don't need that shit. I don't like the idea of the feds mandating anything, too many chances for them to fuck it up.
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Re: NXDN?

Postby KE7JFF » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:41 am

Mong wrote:
motorola_otaku wrote:Fuck NXDN and fuck TRBO. The LMR industry needs to get their shit together and settle on one digital voice standard, or Uncle Charlie needs to step in and mandate that they pick one. For that matter, fuck the 6.25 mandate too.. if Uncle Moneybags Charlie wasn't addicted to spectrum auctions we wouldn't need to cram people in that close together.




Eh, nothing like competition to make things interesting.


P25 might be fine when the feds are footing most of the costs but businesses don't need that shit. I don't like the idea of the feds mandating anything, too many chances for them to fuck it up.


Well, apparently Icom has already proclaimed that AAR has selected NXDN as their standard for digital radio on the railroad, but AAR has not said anything even involving radios yet. Of course, what makes it that "decision" odd is that AAR is a member of the P25 forum as well.

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Re: NXDN?

Postby mr.syntrx » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:33 am

And yet more "DVSI has everyone by the balls" proprietary vocoder shit. :ve4uo:
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Re: NXDN?

Postby motorola_otaku » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:28 am

Mong wrote:P25 might be fine when the feds are footing most of the costs but businesses don't need that shit.

I see that argument made in a lot of places, but people seem to forget that P25 is scalable. A single-channel P25 conventional repeater system with low-tier subscriber units is no more "grandiose", for lack of a better word, than a single-channel NXDN or TRBO system.

My problem with competing standards is that no matter how "directed" a non-P25 system may be for business, you are eventually going to have public safety and local government entities buying into it, and when that happens you may as well never have created a public-safety standard in the first place. Of course, that point could've been made years ago with the advent of ProVoice and OpenSky. :ve4uo:

I think a lot of anti-P25 sentiment boils down to hatred of Motorola, and yes, much of that is justified because their business practices do suck the big one. But again, it's not like they own P25.. they just happen to be the biggest player in the market.
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Re: NXDN?

Postby KE7JFF » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:29 am

mr.syntrx wrote:And yet more "DVSI has everyone by the balls" proprietary vocoder shit. :ve4uo:


Well, they are like the only group actually making vocoders.
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Re: NXDN?

Postby Wowbagger » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:10 pm

KE7JFF wrote:
mr.syntrx wrote:And yet more "DVSI has everyone by the balls" proprietary vocoder shit. :ve4uo:


Well, they are like the only group actually making vocoders.


Wrong.

There are plenty of other vocoders out there. The problem is one of inertia: since developers of communications protocols are already using DVSI, they naturally tend to look there first when designing new protocols.
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Re: NXDN?

Postby Mong » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:55 pm

motorola_otaku wrote:My problem with competing standards is that no matter how "directed" a non-P25 system may be for business, you are eventually going to have public safety and local government entities buying into it, and when that happens you may as well never have created a public-safety standard in the first place.



If public safety wants to buy stuff not meant for them, I guess that's up to them (LTR, etc).
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Re: NXDN?

Postby rdunajewski » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:53 pm

KE7JFF wrote:As probably some you guys are aware, Kenwood and Icom have came out with a new joint standard for digital radio based upon the AMBE-II vocoder from DVSI called NXDN.

Now, the question is...has anyone gotten to work on the ham bands yet? :P


My group is considering setting up a 440 and 2M NXDN repeater, pending we get permission from the site owner. At the same site there's another 2m and 440 machine, so we need to ensure we don't interfere with them. We already have an Icom FR6000 set up for analog-only on GMRS, and we're itching to get digital rolling. If digital were allowed on GMRS, that'd be just fine as well. Too many 2m and 440 repeaters around here, but right now that's the only place to set up an NXDN system with the current equipment. Imagine NXDN at 6m or 10m.. :ham: :ham:

From time to time everyone needs to be reminded that NXDN is not P25 and was never designed for public safety. While some agencies are going for NXDN because of its lower cost, that's not the primary market. When 6.25 kHz is eventually required, all Part 90 services will need a digital system capable of that bandwidth. P25 is far too expensive right now for the small businesses out there than can barely afford analog radios. NXDN Trunking will also serve the LTR/SMR markets where the need exists for a low-cost trunking system for multiple small businesses. Competition on these business markets is just fine in my opinion, P25 isn't the solution to everything.
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Re: NXDN?

Postby motorola_otaku » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:05 pm

rdunajewski wrote:We already have an Icom FR6000 set up for analog-only on GMRS, and we're itching to get digital rolling. If digital were allowed on GMRS, that'd be just fine as well.

When and if digital voice is ever made legal for GMRS, my stuff is going CVSD/Securenet first, then P25. Already got the hardware in place to do it save for P25-capable repeaters, and most of the users are already running around with el-cheapo OFB/XL-equipped Astro Sabers. :mjban:
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Re: NXDN?

Postby va3wxm » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:13 pm

No love yet on that Quantar acquisition your were considering a while ago?

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Re: NXDN?

Postby motorola_otaku » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:01 pm

va3wxm wrote:No love yet on that Quantar acquisition your were considering a while ago?

If that was directed at me, I was not aware that anyone had any Quantars available. The last time I tried to pick one up, I held off because if was a low-split UHF unit and the consensus was that the firmware probably didn't support P25.
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Re: NXDN?

Postby doownek » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:11 pm

motorola_otaku wrote:My problem with competing standards is that no matter how "directed" a non-P25 system may be for business, you are eventually going to have public safety and local government entities buying into it, and when that happens you may as well never have created a public-safety standard in the first place.


Already happening. At least two public safety agencies in KY are buying nexedge systems.
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