D-Star? How to Spend 20K?

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n8jsn
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D-Star? How to Spend 20K?

Post by n8jsn » Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:32 pm

Ok, I need some help.

Our program has seriously invested into D-star units, our County purchased 18 ID800's and 1 91ad.

So, now the next step is a repeater. I have about 10-20K potentially in grant money to build one.

So, can anyone tell me what I need?

Right now I am thinking 2 meter and 440 modules but hell, we'll probbally buy a 1.2 ghz also just to have it since we have future thoughts.

I think that I need an:

ID-RP2C - Controler
ID-2000V - 2 Meter Module
ID-2000D ?? 2 Meter Data??
ID-4000V - 440 Module
IDRP2D - 1.2GHZ Data

I'm looking for an entire shopping list.. Duplexers, antenna's, all that good stuff.. Anyone got some suggestions?

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Redbeard
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Post by Redbeard » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:44 pm

dude they had a serious sale on that stuff around dayton time this year. i'll see if i can dig the flyer out of my stack of crap from the show and see if it's still valid.

i think it basically said "buy a few get the rest free" or something crazy like that. they were really pushing the stuff cus nobody wanted radios if there were no repeaters to talk and run data on.
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tvsjr
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Post by tvsjr » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:48 am

The Dayton sale has expired. The offer was, buy the controller, 2m, and 440 gear, get the 1.2 stuff free.

JSN-
For a repeater package, you'll need:
ID-RP2C controller
You can then add on:
ID-RP2000V 2meter repeater
ID-RP4000V 70cm repeater
ID-RP2V 23cm voice repeater
ID-RP2D 23cm high-speed data "repeater"

The low-speed data is built into the 2m and 440 units.

For duplexers, any standard duplexer will work. The first DSTAR system on the air was here in Dallas (almost 3 years ago). I believe they used a TX/RX duplexer for 1.2GHz stuff, as that's an uncommon band and a unit had to be custom-made.

Personally, I'd give EMR a call, as they're my favorite when it comes to duplexers (kick-ass products, half the price of RFSCelwave, Telewave, etc., and they built me a new duplexer for our fire repeater in under a week with no rush fee because we needed it ASAP). If you've got real money to spend, I'd buy their 6-can duplexers with dual-stage isolators. I believe a 2m unit will run about $2200.

Antennas - DB224E for VHF, DB408 or DB420 for UHF. Again, 1.2 is odd... I believe the guys here are using a ham antenna, simply because there's nothing out there for 1.2 commercially. Again, you might try calling around, see if someone will build something for you.

Feedline - Heliax all the way. Depending on your run length, no less than 1/2" for VHF, 7/8" for UHF, 1-1/4" for 1.2.

Something to remember when playing at 1.2. You're playing in a big-boy band now. PL259s, J-poles, and RG-8 need not apply. For mobile installations, you're going to need to run low-loss mounts (we imported antennas from Europe built for 1.2, hole-mount with FME connectors, then ran low-loss LMR coax), real connectors, etc.

If you're looking at buying the complete repeater setup, racks, power supplies, RF conditioning, antenna/feedline, etc., I'd say you're going to be stretched to pull it off for $20K. You're going to flush about $7K in the repeater setup, and probably that much more in RF conditioning. You still don't have antenna/feedline/rack/power supply/battery backup/etc.

Don't forget, one of the big parts of DSTAR is Internet linking. You need to have good access (think 512Kbps SDSL at a minimum, preferably T1 or better) available near your repeater.

Don't let people get you down on DSTAR. You'll very likely see it becoming a whole lot more popular for EMCOMM stuff in the not-too-distant future.

If you have more questions, PM me. I can put you in touch with the experts.

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Redbeard
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Post by Redbeard » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:33 pm

Yeah the Texas guys have the biggest install of D-Star equipment out there I think. They were the ones at Dayton demoing the stuff for Icom. They had some nice tactical sets in Pelican cases on display too.

http://www.k5tit.org/
Shawn - KB8UDE
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n8jsn
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Post by n8jsn » Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:45 pm

Tnx guys for the suggestions..

Now one more for the heck of it.. With our ID800's we already have (18 of them) can you tell me more about the data?

I understand low speed data and that I possibly do not need a TNC.. Is it possible to run a "bbs" on them? and if it is, how do I set it up? Which one to use and how about running Outpost over D-star?

Any thoughts?

tvsjr
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Post by tvsjr » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:36 pm

The low-speed data featured on the ID800 is a 1200N,8,1 serial stream. As I understand it, you plug a DB9 in on each end and away you go.

Note that there IS NO ERROR CORRECTION on the serial data. If you want FEC/CRC, you'll have to do it yourself.

Otherwise, it's just a wire. Shove whatever you want down it.

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Post by compuman81 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:29 pm

you can reprogram each other's radios over the air :mjban:

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Post by kd5wyu » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:56 pm

The low-speed serial iinterface presented to your computer is selectable at 4800 or 9600 bps, N81 on a DB9. The pinout for the required serial cable to Mini-DIN can be found here:

http://cobalt.n5zpr.com/dstar2.html

The only yucky things about it is that there is NO error correction (like tvsjr said) and it uses Xon/Xoff flow control instead of hardware flow control.

As I underrstand it, most of the stuff in Hyperterminal (Kermit, Xmodem/Ymodem maybe even Zmodem) should work fine, as should the keyboard to keyboard stuff that used to rule the roost on traditional packet.

The voice side is 2400 bps GMSK voice and 1200 bps forward error correction, for a 4800 bps data stream in total.

-b-

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