First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

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First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by kb4oid » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:30 pm

I've heard that Moe Wheatly, AE4JY, debuted a homebrew experimental D-STARS transceiver at last weekend's Southeastern VHF Society Conference in Atlanta. There has been some talk on an ICOM forum about it: http://www.icomamerica.com/support/forums/tm.asp?m=5729. I'm encouraged to see someone other than ICOM doing some development. Maybe something good will show at Dayton this year, perhaps a P25 radio from a ham manufacturer?[/url]

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Re: First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by mr.syntrx » Tue May 01, 2007 1:07 am

kb4oid wrote: perhaps a P25 radio from a ham manufacturer?
That won't happen.
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Re: First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by Mong » Tue May 01, 2007 3:56 am

mr.syntrx wrote:
kb4oid wrote: perhaps a P25 radio from a ham manufacturer?
That won't happen.
You know they already do, They just don't call them ham radios, but the big three (besides /\/\) want to make money. If they put them in the ham line they'd not be able to charge more than $200 :baby:

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Re: First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by ka8ypy » Tue May 01, 2007 9:04 am

Mong wrote:
mr.syntrx wrote:
kb4oid wrote: perhaps a P25 radio from a ham manufacturer?
That won't happen.
You know they already do, They just don't call them ham radios, but the big three (besides /\/\) want to make money. If they put them in the ham line they'd not be able to charge more than $200 :baby:
Why??? ICOM is charging $500+ for D-Star, whats the difference?? Not a damn thing, they have to pay DVSI for the AMBE codec for D-Star just like they are paying for the IMBE codec for P25.

Since both are open protocols, how much would it cost to put both codecs on the same board and have a radio that will do either P25 or D-Star at the click of a button when programming the radio?

The only reason that the ham manufacturers won't do P25 is because it is a US only thing. D-Star was created for the world wide amateur community by amateurs in Japan.
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Re: First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by Mong » Tue May 01, 2007 9:25 am

ka8ypy wrote:
Mong wrote:
mr.syntrx wrote:
kb4oid wrote: perhaps a P25 radio from a ham manufacturer?
That won't happen.
You know they already do, They just don't call them ham radios, but the big three (besides /\/\) want to make money. If they put them in the ham line they'd not be able to charge more than $200 :baby:
Why??? ICOM is charging $500+ for D-Star, whats the difference?? Not a damn thing, they have to pay DVSI for the AMBE codec for D-Star just like they are paying for the IMBE codec for P25.
Signle band D-star is $300

ka8ypy wrote: Since both are open protocols, how much would it cost to put both codecs on the same board and have a radio that will do either P25 or D-Star at the click of a button when programming the radio?

Heck if I know, ask them :baby:


ka8ypy wrote:The only reason that the ham manufacturers won't do P25 is because it is a US only thing. D-Star was created for the world wide amateur community by amateurs in Japan.


Sounds like a business plan was made, and they decided to go with what will make them the most money. That's the way it should be.

If there is a market, someone will build them. If not, then there is not a market. People have to admit that P25 is not meant for ham radio, and it's never going to be fully accepted. It will the bastard child right next to CW :baby:

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Re: First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by motorola_otaku » Tue May 01, 2007 9:55 am

ka8ypy wrote:Why??? ICOM is charging $500+ for D-Star, whats the difference?? Not a damn thing, they have to pay DVSI for the AMBE codec for D-Star just like they are paying for the IMBE codec for P25.

Since both are open protocols, how much would it cost to put both codecs on the same board and have a radio that will do either P25 or D-Star at the click of a button when programming the radio?

The only reason that the ham manufacturers won't do P25 is because it is a US only thing. D-Star was created for the world wide amateur community by amateurs in Japan.
The codec used in D-Star is licensed from DVSI? I thought the Japanese came up with their own codec based on AMBE, kinda like how Pro-Voice is essentially the same thing as P25 IMBE, but designed differently.

I've heard rumors (but nothing confirmed) that D-STAR is more than just a hammy protocol in Japan, it's going to end up being their nationwide public safety standard like we have APCO-25 here. Humorously enough, they also had their own version of the XTS3000, which is now discontinued along with ours in favor of the XTS5000.

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Post by tvsjr » Tue May 01, 2007 10:48 am

DSTAR uses AMBE2020, licensed from DVSI. ProVoice uses IMBE, licensed from DVSI as well... they simply used a different air interface from typical P25.

Yes, there has been talk of a commercial version of DSTAR for public safety, including end-to-end encryption and all the fun stuff. Personally, I doubt it.

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Re: First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by kb4oid » Tue May 01, 2007 2:03 pm

Why??? ICOM is charging $500+ for D-Star, whats the difference?? Not a damn thing, they have to pay DVSI for the AMBE codec for D-Star just like they are paying for the IMBE codec for P25.

Since both are open protocols, how much would it cost to put both codecs on the same board and have a radio that will do either P25 or D-Star at the click of a button when programming the radio?
By my estimation, the hardware cost to embed AMBE-2020 in a radio is under $50, including buying the licensed vocoder chip from DVSI ($20 in 1's qtys), so I can't see $200+ for the UT module to add D-STARS to my radio. Thats an awful lot of markup, I guess ICOM's overhead rates are a bitch ;) I can't speak to the cost of DVSI P25 vocoder chip, but I can't imagine its much different than their AMBE-2020 offereings. I'm still hoping someone will save me the trouble and design a third party drop-in n module.

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Re: First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by mr.syntrx » Tue May 22, 2007 5:02 am

motorola_otaku wrote:
ka8ypy wrote:Why??? ICOM is charging $500+ for D-Star, whats the difference?? Not a damn thing, they have to pay DVSI for the AMBE codec for D-Star just like they are paying for the IMBE codec for P25.

Since both are open protocols, how much would it cost to put both codecs on the same board and have a radio that will do either P25 or D-Star at the click of a button when programming the radio?

The only reason that the ham manufacturers won't do P25 is because it is a US only thing. D-Star was created for the world wide amateur community by amateurs in Japan.
The codec used in D-Star is licensed from DVSI? I thought the Japanese came up with their own codec based on AMBE, kinda like how Pro-Voice is essentially the same thing as P25 IMBE, but designed differently.

I've heard rumors (but nothing confirmed) that D-STAR is more than just a hammy protocol in Japan, it's going to end up being their nationwide public safety standard like we have APCO-25 here. Humorously enough, they also had their own version of the XTS3000, which is now discontinued along with ours in favor of the XTS5000.
Japanese cops have been running digital nationwide for a very long time now. The Japanese government has a mandate that ALL two way radio will be narrowband digital by a certain date not too far in the future. If you check out Icom Japan's PMR site, you can see some fairly funky gear, even though it's all in Japanese.
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Re: First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by alex » Tue May 22, 2007 2:49 pm

mr.syntrx wrote:If you check out Icom Japan's PMR site, you can see some fairly funky gear, even though it's all in Japanese.
I'd still like to play with one of the Asia/PAC CDM mobiles that has the 6-8 line display. I think the asia ones support MDC inhibit from the keypad too!

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Re: First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by KC8RYW » Tue May 22, 2007 3:18 pm

ka8ypy wrote: The only reason that the ham manufacturers won't do P25 is because it is a US only thing. D-Star was created for the world wide amateur community by amateurs in Japan.
Bingo.

It's the same reason none of the :ham: companies make 33cm (902-928 MHz) gear. It's a USA-only band.

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Post by va3wxm » Tue May 22, 2007 3:24 pm

Just like 1.25 eh?

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Post by Mong » Tue May 22, 2007 3:30 pm

va3wxm wrote:Just like 1.25 eh?
We always have alinco, those are almost like radios :baby:

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Post by KB9SXK » Tue May 22, 2007 3:31 pm

Um...P25 is world wide. (ish) :baby:
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Re: First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by motorola_otaku » Tue May 22, 2007 4:24 pm

mr.syntrx wrote:Japanese cops have been running digital nationwide for a very long time now.
D-STAR, P25, or something else? If at all possible, I was wanting to take at least one radio to listen in with when I go in early 2009.
And the sign says you got to have a membership card to get inside.

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Post by KB9SXK » Tue May 22, 2007 4:31 pm

Image

Image

Image
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Post by Mong » Tue May 22, 2007 10:56 pm

Do they make a beltclip for that? :baby:

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Re: First Non-ICOM Experimental D-Stars transceiver

Post by mr.syntrx » Wed May 23, 2007 12:51 am

motorola_otaku wrote:
mr.syntrx wrote:Japanese cops have been running digital nationwide for a very long time now.
D-STAR, P25, or something else? If at all possible, I was wanting to take at least one radio to listen in with when I go in early 2009.
Some funky CVSD system on specially made radios, IIRC. I'm trying to find the site where I first read about it, it was full of all sorts of interesting stuff about communication networks over there. There aren't many sites with that sort of information in English.
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