Newbie help

Forum for the promotion and understanding of digital voice on the amateur bands.

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Newbie help

Post by KC9UZB » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:12 pm

If I was a noob (which I am), and if I wanted to get started with P25 (which I do), what would be *the* thing to look out for on eBay, or on here or wherever?

I'm not interested in D-Star or any of the hammy protocols/modes.

Like I said, I'm a total noob.

ps: I'm in the UK/Britain, for my sins.

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Post by motorola_otaku » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:18 pm

Model 1 Astro Saber, with a firmware minimum of HOST 05.xx..xx and DSP 06.xx.xx and a flashcode beginning with an odd number (eg. 100001-000000-1 or 500008-000000-7).

1. This is the extremely over-simplified version. You'd do well to do some reading over at the Batlabs Astro forum.

2. When you go shopping, don't buy from anyone who doesn't know what any of the above terms mean. There is a lot of used Astro gear floating around out there and not all of it does IMBE/P25.

Are there any IMBE repeaters up in Britain yet, or are you looking to play on simplex?
And the sign says you got to have a membership card to get inside.

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Post by KC9UZB » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:27 pm

motorola_otaku wrote:Are there any IMBE repeaters up in Britain yet, or are you looking to play on simplex?
There aren't any repeaters up yet. I know of about two or three people who have digital stuff and are using it on simplex. One of them uses it illegally (ie: not on ham bands) :) Naughty :baby:

Thanks for the link and the info. I'll get my head down (!!) and start reading.

Anything else I should know, or is it all in that url? :p

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Post by motorola_otaku » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:51 pm

Napalm wrote:Anything else I should know, or is it all in that url? :p
The howto of buying used Motorola Astro gear is pretty well contained in there. If you're new to Motorola altogether and not just the P25 side of things, be prepared to sell your soul to Satan and drink yourself into an early grave because programming the radio once you get it is a whole 'nother discussion unto itself.
And the sign says you got to have a membership card to get inside.

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Post by KC9UZB » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:01 pm

Mmmhuh. I have some MT1000's(HT600Es) here which I bought off eBay, and programmed myself, uh I mean, had programmed for me, yeah that's right. :mjban:

I'm not a total Motosexual virgin - I just haven't popped my IMBE/Astro cherry yet. :mjban:

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Post by KD8CPP » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:39 pm

Napalm wrote:I'm not a total Motosexual virgin - I just haven't popped my IMBE/Astro cherry yet.
I am, but that is seeming to change at Dayton!
Achmead wrote:Oh wait I could have Clay Aiken

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Post by n3jfw » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:49 pm

also, if you are unsure of a radio-post the link. We'll be happy to lend you our input.
N3JFW 4:29 pm
(4:29:48 PM): so he's gay huh
(nameless ham) 4:30 pm
(4:30:02 PM): haha no, but he is a music major
N3JFW 4:30 pm
(4:30:15 PM): so he's still in the closet

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Post by KC9UZB » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:52 pm

Done some enquiries, and someone I know has a couple of these for sale:

H04RDF9PW7AN. DSP.105.00.18,FIRMWARE 03.20.01.00 SYSTEM PACKAGE H35,FLASH CODE 000001-000000-9,1MEG WITH XL ASTRO ENCRYPTION.

Image
(clicky ^^)

I asked if it did IMBE and he didn't say yay or ney...... guesses?

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Post by ka8ypy » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:13 pm

Napalm wrote:Done some enquiries, and someone I know has a couple of these for sale:

H04RDF9PW7AN. DSP.105.00.18,FIRMWARE 03.20.01.00 SYSTEM PACKAGE H35,FLASH CODE 000001-000000-9,1MEG WITH XL ASTRO ENCRYPTION.

Image
(clicky ^^)

I asked if it did IMBE and he didn't say yay or ney...... guesses?
Next item you need is this link:

http://www.akardam.net/moto/decode2.pl

Copy and paste any flashcode and it will tell you what it has..

Conventional operation only, not even IMBE ready.

Host and DSP are way old as well.

Keep lookin' and askin', most of us won't stear you wrong... :baby:

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Post by motorola_otaku » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:46 pm

Napalm wrote:Done some enquiries, and someone I know has a couple of these for sale:

H04RDF9PW7AN. DSP.105.00.18,FIRMWARE 03.20.01.00 SYSTEM PACKAGE H35,FLASH CODE 000001-000000-9,1MEG WITH XL ASTRO ENCRYPTION.

Image
(clicky ^^)

I asked if it did IMBE and he didn't say yay or ney...... guesses?
Huh. There was a guy asking about radios very similar to those over on Batlabs.. wonder if it's the same dude.

I assume you are looking for 403-470 radios, then? Those seem to be more plentiful than VHF radios, but it's hit-or-miss sometimes.
And the sign says you got to have a membership card to get inside.

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Post by KC9UZB » Tue May 01, 2007 4:29 am

Could be the same guy, it wasn't me that's for sure .

403-470 is ideal since it covers one of our amateur bands and also two un-regulated business bands.

VHF would be nice but the split would have to cover 144-146MHz.

I did check out the flashcode and the model number etc. before I posted, and I noticed it started with a 0 and not a 1 or an odd number, so I didn't get my hopes up, I just wanted confirmation. Thanks fellas.

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Post by mr.syntrx » Tue May 01, 2007 6:12 am

Check the firmware version really carefully. More than a few asshats have been known to shove a whoreflash codeplug into a piece of shit VSELP or analog radio, and tell people it's IMBE capable.
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Post by motorola_otaku » Tue May 01, 2007 9:36 am

Napalm wrote:VHF would be nice but the split would have to cover 144-146MHz.
All VHF Astro portables cover the entire 136-174 VHF split.
And the sign says you got to have a membership card to get inside.

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Post by K2JLX » Tue May 01, 2007 9:41 am

motorola_otaku wrote:
Napalm wrote:VHF would be nice but the split would have to cover 144-146MHz.
All VHF Astro portables cover the entire 136-174 VHF split.

...and even have a matching wideband 'penetrator' antenna for even more flexibility and general sexiness on the airwaves. :baby:
Homophobe....... I'd hit it like a fucking screen door in a Goddamn tornado. When you get all old and sickly my round arsed friend, you will learn to take advantage of situations as they arise or do without. Does that make me a fag? Dunno.....don't care........but it means I am not going to do without....... -- FatherJack - 3/29/2012

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Re: Newbie help

Post by K2JLX » Tue May 01, 2007 9:45 am

Napalm wrote:If I was a noob (which I am), and if I wanted to get started with P25 (which I do), what would be *the* thing to look out for on eBay, or on here or wherever?

I'm not interested in D-Star or any of the hammy protocols/modes.

Like I said, I'm a total noob.

ps: I'm in the UK/Britain, for my sins.

Greetings and salutations from a Brit across the pond btw! transplant NY'er now. :ve4uo: ..an Astro Saber would look very good attached to your belt when your down at your local boozer supping a pint squire! make sure you get a model III and get some encryption on it to go with your IMBE. :baby:

Image

+


Image

== heaven
Homophobe....... I'd hit it like a fucking screen door in a Goddamn tornado. When you get all old and sickly my round arsed friend, you will learn to take advantage of situations as they arise or do without. Does that make me a fag? Dunno.....don't care........but it means I am not going to do without....... -- FatherJack - 3/29/2012

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Post by KC9UZB » Tue May 01, 2007 10:13 am

Hahaha! :D

Nice one.

Personally I only partake in the drinking of spirits and fine wines.... who am I kidding...

I couldn't condone using encryption on the amateur bands, although someone I know will cover me to use their "General" licence which does allow it.. Mwhahahaha.

*gets saving the pennies*

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Post by K2JLX » Tue May 01, 2007 10:32 am

Napalm wrote:Hahaha! :D

Nice one.

Personally I only partake in the drinking of spirits and fine wines.... who am I kidding...

I couldn't condone using encryption on the amateur bands, although someone I know will cover me to use their "General" licence which does allow it.. Mwhahahaha.

*gets saving the pennies*
<SARCASM> yes, I too only drink the finest French and Italian wines, and when I am partaking in my tipples of choice I am wisely avoiding all forms of officially sanctioned OF QRZ encryption such as MDC, IMBE, GE STAR and MODAT. </SARCASM>
Homophobe....... I'd hit it like a fucking screen door in a Goddamn tornado. When you get all old and sickly my round arsed friend, you will learn to take advantage of situations as they arise or do without. Does that make me a fag? Dunno.....don't care........but it means I am not going to do without....... -- FatherJack - 3/29/2012

VE6WTF

Post by VE6WTF » Tue May 01, 2007 10:34 am

if you ask me its a waste of time,
not enough peeps doing it to make it worth while.
wait till its actually a popular thing

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Post by KC9UZB » Tue May 01, 2007 10:43 am

k2jlx wrote:<SARCASM> yes, I too only drink the finest French and Italian wines, and when I am partaking in my tipples of choice I am wisely avoiding all forms of officially sanctioned OF QRZ encryption such as MDC, IMBE, GE STAR and MODAT. </SARCASM>
Of course my good man... best to always use the santioned encryption whilst sober, I find... what-ho?

On a serious note, there's no reason why I can't use IMBE on the ham bands - its not as if The Powers That Be can't decode it. 99% of the hammies round here won't be able to though :D

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Post by motorola_otaku » Tue May 01, 2007 10:45 am

VE6WTF wrote:if you ask me its a waste of time,
not enough peeps doing it to make it worth while.
wait till its actually a popular thing
Yeah, but if everyone thought that way, no one would ever pick it up. Someone's gotta get the ball rolling!

No offense dude, but you're kinda starting to edge into spammer/troll territory. Remember: we're all here to have a good time. :)
And the sign says you got to have a membership card to get inside.

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Post by K2JLX » Tue May 01, 2007 10:52 am

Napalm wrote:
On a serious note, there's no reason why I can't use IMBE on the ham bands - its not as if The Powers That Be can't decode it. 99% of the hammies round here won't be able to though :D
Yes, its virtually a legal encryption since most hammies don't have the money to go P25 digital anyway, too busy buying Dstar crap and deodorant etc.

There is a saying here... it goes something like this:

Go digital or go home :mjban:

I guess 99% of hammies went home or to a stinkfest to buy Icum/Yaesu/Kenwood HT's. :baby:
Homophobe....... I'd hit it like a fucking screen door in a Goddamn tornado. When you get all old and sickly my round arsed friend, you will learn to take advantage of situations as they arise or do without. Does that make me a fag? Dunno.....don't care........but it means I am not going to do without....... -- FatherJack - 3/29/2012

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Post by KC9UZB » Tue May 01, 2007 11:25 am

k2jlx wrote:Yes, its virtually a legal encryption since most hammies don't have the money to go P25 digital anyway, too busy buying Dstar crap and deodorant etc.

There is a saying here... it goes something like this:

Go digital or go home :mjban:

I guess 99% of hammies went home or to a stinkfest to buy Icum/Yaesu/Kenwood HT's. :baby:
lmao :baby: :baby:

I was thinking about D-star, when a mate of mine bought an Icom IC-91. But then I thought, for the price of an E91, the price of the D-Star board, I could almost have some Motosexyness...

Next step is to convince the OF at the club :ham: 's at the local club to buy some so I'm not the only one speaking in tongues... uh, digital.

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Post by mr.syntrx » Tue May 01, 2007 9:34 pm

Just run SECURENET, and if they bitch, tell them it's FED-STD-1023 digital voice in the clear :baby:
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Post by KC9UZB » Wed May 02, 2007 5:46 am

lol owned.

Ok, update on the two AS's I posted about ^^ up there:
The radios were fitted with dvi modules which were only made for home office use so all home office astros will communicate with each other,and can be put onto acpo25 via the software,only found this out today as the guy i bought them off is still working for the police,he also tells me south wales and lothian and borders still use these along side airwave.weird to programme than normal radios,anyway what are you after???
I don't think the guy gets it does he?

"Can be put on ACPO 25 via software??" that's BS right?[/quote]

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Post by KC9UZB » Wed May 02, 2007 6:35 am

Hmmm, here's a question (not quite the right place for it, but here goes).

If you remove the crypto board from a Saber, will it dump its keys?

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Post by K2JLX » Wed May 02, 2007 8:15 am

Napalm wrote:Hmmm, here's a question (not quite the right place for it, but here goes).

If you remove the crypto board from a Saber, will it dump its keys?
Yes. For a regular Saber anyway, my understanding is an Astro25 radio with infinite key retention set to true; the ECM will retain the key without power... so disconnecting it from the vocon should be fine also. Someone else more well versed in it than me can confirm it. I know I have it enabled on my 5k cause of the re-casing I did just last week.
Homophobe....... I'd hit it like a fucking screen door in a Goddamn tornado. When you get all old and sickly my round arsed friend, you will learn to take advantage of situations as they arise or do without. Does that make me a fag? Dunno.....don't care........but it means I am not going to do without....... -- FatherJack - 3/29/2012

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Post by KC9UZB » Wed May 02, 2007 9:44 am

Meh, that plan is out of the window.

The guy wanted $400 for the pair...

*goes back to putting the pennies in his piggy bank*

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Post by KC9UZB » Mon May 21, 2007 5:57 am

Weeeeeelll, just in case anyone cared, here's an update.

I got fooled into buying another hammy rig - I can't really remember why, I must have been drunk or something, but I just blew damn near $400 on an FT-8800. I already have one, I don't know why I wanted another.

Meh at least I have a radio I can shove in the veee-hickle and keep it in there.

So my plans for world domination using IMBE have gone on the back burner.. plus the fact I'd only be talking to myself in digital... :( No fucker else in the UK has any P25 kit as far as I know. I take it these things can work analogue and/or conventional? Be pretty sexy talking on one of them thar things on my local hammy repeater.

My ham buddy can't be arsed buying one of these things and he doesn't understand why I want one... so like I said, unless a few more people here in the good ol 51st state start realising, I'm on my own.

Any ideas on how to get more hammies to take this idea on?

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Post by Mong » Mon May 21, 2007 7:14 am

Sure, put up a repeater that is capable of passing digital. Save up some $$$$

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Post by mr.syntrx » Mon May 21, 2007 7:22 am

Napalm wrote:Any ideas on how to get more hammies to take this idea on?
It's like trying to teach a cat to pour beers :baby:
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Post by KC9UZB » Mon May 21, 2007 11:55 am

LMFAO at the cat comment.

It's hard enough getting the local hammies round here to even use their fricken Icum's and Yaewoods let alone getting them to use a whole new mode that might require OMG spending more than $200 on something and programming it solely with a computer! SHOCK HORROR.

When I turned up to the club with my HT1000's and my programming kit they were all like "ZOMGWTF".

*bangs head against brick wall*

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Post by KC9UZB » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:15 am

Update for anyone who cares. Found a Saber on Batlabs and after a bit of haggling and some WTF moments I got it for $350. Comes with a charger and a NOS Moto battery.

Seems like a good deal, and including shipping to my shitty part of the world it was $411.

Been talking to a guy over here who's been importing some Motorola TETRA sets and here's what he had to say:

If the radios have the encryption boards in them and the package is opened then you may not get them back. They will be confiscated by customs and sent to GCHQ, you will then get a knock-knock at the door and have some explaining to do, perhaps with a search warrant under new Anti Terror legislation..its possible.
--------

I was like "WTF".

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Post by motorola_otaku » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:31 am

Napalm wrote:Update for anyone who cares. Found a Saber on Batlabs and after a bit of haggling and some WTF moments I got it for $350. Comes with a charger and a NOS Moto battery.

Seems like a good deal, and including shipping to my shitty part of the world it was $411.
Good on ya. I assume it came with recent firmware and the appropriate flash? :baby:

I dunno how uptight the British government is on importing, but pretty much all of the EU is okay to export DES products to under US trade regs.
And the sign says you got to have a membership card to get inside.

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Post by K2JLX » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:34 am

Napalm wrote:Update for anyone who cares. Found a Saber on Batlabs and after a bit of haggling and some WTF moments I got it for $350. Comes with a charger and a NOS Moto battery.

Seems like a good deal, and including shipping to my shitty part of the world it was $411.

Been talking to a guy over here who's been importing some Motorola TETRA sets and here's what he had to say:

If the radios have the encryption boards in them and the package is opened then you may not get them back. They will be confiscated by customs and sent to GCHQ, you will then get a knock-knock at the door and have some explaining to do, perhaps with a search warrant under new Anti Terror legislation..its possible.
--------

I was like "WTF".

mmmm cause 56 bit encryption is so secure in todays world.
Homophobe....... I'd hit it like a fucking screen door in a Goddamn tornado. When you get all old and sickly my round arsed friend, you will learn to take advantage of situations as they arise or do without. Does that make me a fag? Dunno.....don't care........but it means I am not going to do without....... -- FatherJack - 3/29/2012

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Post by KC9UZB » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:20 am

motorola_otaku wrote:Good on ya. I assume it came with recent firmware and the appropriate flash? :baby:

I dunno how uptight the British government is on importing, but pretty much all of the EU is okay to export DES products to under US trade regs.
flash could be better but it's IMBE sexy which is what I wanted. It could be more whored out but that's for later when I learn wtf an S-rec is ;) :p

I had a thought after the dude sent me that email, and James confirmed it for me... how the hell is some jobsworth customs guy in Britain going to know:
A: wtf an Astro Saber is
B: that it has a DES-XL module in it
C: even if he DID take the radio apart how would he know what to look for.

Total crap.

Oh and D: that DES-XL is restricted anyway, which I doubt. I'm sure GCHQ can crack it if they wanted to :baby: :wacker: :wacker: :wacker:

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