Example of a DSP6 system without AGC

Forum for the promotion and understanding of digital voice on the amateur bands.

Moderator: Global Moderator Team

Post Reply
User avatar
exkalibur
98247E-011480-1
Posts: 1177
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by exkalibur »

Yeah, that sounds like absolute shit.

Even before the OPP had all their firmware uplifted, it didn't sound THAT bad.

How did you interface the radio to the computer? That is... did you make an interface yourself, or... I've been looking to interface a Spectra with my sound card, but don't really want to blow either one up.
[01:12] Seth: hey
[01:13] Seth: what do you use for a sore anus?
[01:14] exkalibur: more lube?
User avatar
exkalibur
98247E-011480-1
Posts: 1177
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by exkalibur »

That seems fairly straight forward.

I wonder though. Any idea what the DC voltage is that it "pops" on the line? I'm wondering if you could put a bigger cap on there to block any DC voltage from getting into RCA jack.

I imagine this would work on any Motorola radio that uses audio output that's DC isolated then eh?
[01:12] Seth: hey
[01:13] Seth: what do you use for a sore anus?
[01:14] exkalibur: more lube?
User avatar
exkalibur
98247E-011480-1
Posts: 1177
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by exkalibur »

I'm going to go with a guess here and say that "pop" is the Audio PA being turned on. The reason it doesn't do it every time is maybe because there's a delay in the time that it turns off the PA's "B+" so it doesn't have to turn back on every time.
[01:12] Seth: hey
[01:13] Seth: what do you use for a sore anus?
[01:14] exkalibur: more lube?
User avatar
KF4ACN
MOT1
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:44 pm
Location: Florida Sector 4, Quadrant 3

Post by KF4ACN »

Other types of radios due the same thing turning the audio amp on and off the M7100 does the exact same thing with the pop in the start of every call being received. It makes it very difficult to make it work correctly with the sound card in the computer. Hey r0f what software are you using to show the audio wave forms.
"THE DIFFICULT WE DO AT ONCE
THE IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES A LITTLE LONGER"
User avatar
KF4ACN
MOT1
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:44 pm
Location: Florida Sector 4, Quadrant 3

Post by KF4ACN »

Thanks
"THE DIFFICULT WE DO AT ONCE
THE IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES A LITTLE LONGER"
User avatar
motorola_otaku
Cock Block
Posts: 6671
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:53 pm
Location: Stinkadena, TX

Post by motorola_otaku »

Why not just use a 1-1 isolation transformer before your impedance-matching network? Or did you and it didn't work?
And the sign says you got to have a membership card to get inside.
User avatar
mancow
Moderator - Dayton 2007 Supporter
Posts: 1395
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:58 am

Post by mancow »

King portables have that horrid click/pop too. Like was said, it's the amp turning on and off.

I wonder if a guy could just wire the amp to be on all the time since power consumption on RX really isn't much of an issue for a mobile..
User avatar
KC9UZB
98247E-011480-1
Posts: 1289
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:10 am
Location: Artist formerly known as M3ECM (Indiana)

Post by KC9UZB »

r0f wrote:I didn't have an isolation transformer kicking around. Either way works I guess.

That pop is evil. I wonder if there's a distinct reason Motorola designed the PA so it gets shut off when not in use? I could try jumpering it on...I just wonder if it would add "hiss" to the speaker on a 24/7 basis. Maybe this is why M turns it off?

S
Possibly for reasons of "hiss" but also to save a tiny bit of power?

I know it's nothing to do with Motorola but I have a couple of scanners here which don't mute the PA stage when there's no carrier, and yes you DO hear hiss. I have a little Icom which kills the amp and there's a little "bump" or "click" noise. VERY annoying when listening on earphones or on proper speakers.
Josh
Dayton 2007 Supporter
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:41 pm
Location: Wyandotte MI, 48192
Contact:

Post by Josh »

I have an astro spectra Vocoder and Command Board from an Astro Spectra manufactured in 2005. It doesn't issue the same level of "popping" from the speaker as earlier astro spectra and astro spectra plus boards, including some made in 2003.

For whatever reason, the filtering of the popping (where applicable) isn't done on the command board, as an earlier, yet current DSP8/HOST 11.71 board still passed horrid popping with the same 2005 command board.

-Josh
User avatar
n3jfw
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5969
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:55 am

Post by n3jfw »

i thought you had an astro spectra plus josh
N3JFW 4:29 pm
(4:29:48 PM): so he's gay huh
(nameless ham) 4:30 pm
(4:30:02 PM): haha no, but he is a music major
N3JFW 4:30 pm
(4:30:15 PM): so he's still in the closet
User avatar
10-95
living the hamsexy dream
Posts: 765
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:48 pm

Post by 10-95 »

n3jfw wrote:i thought you had an astro spectra plus josh
This brings to mind a question I have. Can the Astro Spectra Plus firmware be dumped into a plain old Astro Spectra? Or do the both utilize the same firmware ?
Last edited by 10-95 on Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Josh
Dayton 2007 Supporter
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:41 pm
Location: Wyandotte MI, 48192
Contact:

Post by Josh »

I don't know, maybe it is only R11.70. I'm actually not near it right now, it's at home and won't be until the weekend. Maybe I'm just confusing for R7.71 which is in a portable.

And yes, I do have Astro Spectra plus radios w/ Host/DSP9.

-Josh
User avatar
KF4ACN
MOT1
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:44 pm
Location: Florida Sector 4, Quadrant 3

Post by KF4ACN »

How about trying to get the audio before it goes to the audio amp. There might be a unused pin on the options connector you can use a jumper inside of the radio to bring the audio out. On the Macom M7100 I found a pin called " XTONE DEC " that has the digital audio on it and it has no pops. The audio is coming from the audio switch IC on the controller. They use this pin for the vehicular repeater. Maybe this can be done on the Astro Spectra.
"THE DIFFICULT WE DO AT ONCE
THE IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES A LITTLE LONGER"
User avatar
10-95
living the hamsexy dream
Posts: 765
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:48 pm

Post by 10-95 »

Funny, What??? The guy offering up the info on the best car in the fleet is so low I missed what he said the first time. I just played the audio in adobe audition and the you can see the unbelievable audio peaks and lows. These poor guys probably think that's how "police radios" are supposed to sound!
User avatar
10-95
living the hamsexy dream
Posts: 765
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:48 pm

Post by 10-95 »

r0f wrote:Ahahaha did you notice the dispatcher said your nickname, Frank? LOL

10-95 is "status check". It's a safety thing they implemented a while back.
I missed that the first time. Any way, 10-95? Still Insane!
User avatar
10-95
living the hamsexy dream
Posts: 765
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:48 pm

Post by 10-95 »

r0f wrote:An RCMP officer emailed me in 2004 with the firmware info installed in their radios.

Portables:
R05.51.00
N06.04.11

Mobiles:
R09.51.00
N06.04.11

Ooof.
So , they seem to be doing slightly better than the LAPD?
User avatar
10-95
living the hamsexy dream
Posts: 765
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:48 pm

Post by 10-95 »

I'm puzzled by the fact that an agency like the RCMP can't or won't update the firmware in their radios?? What exactly is the deal with them?
Do they just occasionally buy radios, issue them and then forget about them until they die? I would think if there was any agency that would have the funds available to maintain their gear , it would be the RCMP.
User avatar
escomm
professor of rectalingus
Posts: 4409
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:54 am
Location: Chief of the CAREPOLICE

Post by escomm »

r0f wrote:Maybe :xls: escomm
Eat shit and fuck a moose
User avatar
n3jfw
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5969
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:55 am

Post by n3jfw »

escomm wrote:
r0f wrote:Maybe :xls: escomm
Eat shit and fuck a moose
he does that before lunch, next task



I'm going to go eat a bagel w/lox now.......
N3JFW 4:29 pm
(4:29:48 PM): so he's gay huh
(nameless ham) 4:30 pm
(4:30:02 PM): haha no, but he is a music major
N3JFW 4:30 pm
(4:30:15 PM): so he's still in the closet
User avatar
n3jfw
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5969
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:55 am

Post by n3jfw »

is that a moose or caribou?
N3JFW 4:29 pm
(4:29:48 PM): so he's gay huh
(nameless ham) 4:30 pm
(4:30:02 PM): haha no, but he is a music major
N3JFW 4:30 pm
(4:30:15 PM): so he's still in the closet
User avatar
escomm
professor of rectalingus
Posts: 4409
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:54 am
Location: Chief of the CAREPOLICE

Post by escomm »

n3jfw wrote:is that a moose or caribou?
Whats the diff??
User avatar
exkalibur
98247E-011480-1
Posts: 1177
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by exkalibur »

It's a bad fucking day for the driver is what it is!

I can't believe MTS/Motorola's unwillingness to uplift the RCMP's radios. With the Ontario Fleetnet system, all the radios were uplifted about a year or so ago because of an issue pertaining to SmartZone. Aparantly the issue was that radios wouldn't switch sites at the proper time, and a firmware uplift fixed this. From what I heard, this uplift was on Motorola's dime. The only thing Fleetnet had to pay for were the little "RSSI" stickers that they put on all the radios that had been uplifted.
[01:12] Seth: hey
[01:13] Seth: what do you use for a sore anus?
[01:14] exkalibur: more lube?
User avatar
mr.syntrx
98247E-211491-4
Posts: 3970
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:24 am
Location: HI HI FINE BUSINESS OLD MAN THERE ON THE FINE BUSINESS HIHI QSL
Contact:

Post by mr.syntrx »

escomm wrote:
n3jfw wrote:is that a moose or caribou?
Whats the diff??
Moose = above
Caribou = Image
User avatar
exkalibur
98247E-011480-1
Posts: 1177
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by exkalibur »

I'm not sure if they are using AGC or not. Their audio is much better now than it used to be however. Back in the day, they had the same "problem" you guys have, where the audio levels are really different between units/dispatcher but I haven't really noticed that too much recently. Hopefully they are. So long as their firmware supports it, they'd be pretty dumb not to - it makes a HUGE difference!
[01:12] Seth: hey
[01:13] Seth: what do you use for a sore anus?
[01:14] exkalibur: more lube?
User avatar
exkalibur
98247E-011480-1
Posts: 1177
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by exkalibur »

Yes, the SmartZone systems that are deployed throughout Ontario were engineered, installed and maintained by Bell Mobility Radio.

From their own website:
About FleetNet

Over the past twenty years, two way radio systems have evolved from simple conventional systems to complex trunked design. During this period, the sophistication of these networks and the benefits of this leading edge technology has increased ten-fold, and so has the cost. Many public safety agencies are beginning to see the merits of transferring the risk and responsibility of radio system design (site selection, coverage), construction (leases, towers) and maintenance (network monitoring, upgrades) to organizations that operate with these elements as core competencies. A network operator with the wealth of experience that Bell has to offer is a natural fit.

When evaluating the advantages of using a public safety network, organizations not only realize the savings on large capital expenditures, but also find they can satisfy their need to remain in control, to know the network can meet their user requirements today and as they grow. Primary considerations tend to be centralized dispatch, encryption, inter-agency operation, disaster management and good reporting tools such as this Grade Of Service web site.

The FleetNet voice radio network is owned by Bell Mobility Radio and built to public safety grade requirements. The system operates across Ontario in the VHF spectrum and is based on Motorola SmartZoneTM trunked radio technology. Coverage is based on mobile level access with portable coverage provided via custom designed, trunking capable, vehicular repeaters (“VR”) and VR companion portables. Where direct network access by portable is required (such as major urban centers), Bell Mobility can install a network sub-layer that enhances the mobile level system coverage to support coverage for trunked portables.

The VR’s have revolutionary “contention algorithms” to allow for many devices to arrive on a scene and seamlessly manage network access. They can operate in three modes: i) Mobile mode (repeater off); ii) Local Mode (provide local coverage ~ 2km, listen to network traffic but do not transmit local traffic to FleetNet); and iii) System Mode (Local Mode with all transmission sent over FleetNet). These devices provide excellent on-scene communications support and are particularly suitable for the concentrated communications typical of fire operations.

FleetNet is a wide area network which translates to seamless communication between mobiles. For example, a unit located in Windsor can talk directly with a mobile in Oshawa, as if it was just around the block. Dispatch centers may be hardwired into the network (dispatcher priority) or provided via wireless dispatch stations. Service offerings include narrowband analog, digital or digital encrypted. This service is only available to qualifying agencies (ie: police, fire, ambulance).

For more information about FleetNet call Bell Mobility Radio at 1-888-346-3925.
[01:12] Seth: hey
[01:13] Seth: what do you use for a sore anus?
[01:14] exkalibur: more lube?
User avatar
exkalibur
98247E-011480-1
Posts: 1177
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by exkalibur »

If you ask me, the "beginning to see the merits" they speak of in reality means that the Provincial Government cannot afford to have it's own system.

When Fleetnet was first announced back in 98/99 or whatever it was, the Provincial Government took the stand that they are in the business of governing the Province, not maintaining radio systems. This is the same reason (that they claim anyway) for contracting out telecommunications services (they don't have their own techs, they're all DTOSs) umong many many other services. A recent example that is just not acceptable is the MTO contracting out Driver and Vehicle Licensing. Now, any driver in Ontario isn't even tested by MTO examiners anymore, it's all been contracted out to a private organization. Said organization also runs Young Drivers of Canada, and is partially owned/controlled (at least as far as shares go) by the Ford Motor Company. How's that for BS?

Subcontracting of the radio systems is nothing new - Bell Mobility Radio has maintained the legacy system for years and they've contracted the work out to local LMR shops. I see nothing wrong with contracting out the maintenance, however I think ownership should remain with the Province.

While Bell Mobility Radio has said the system will remain open only to Public Safety users, I have to wonder if they wouldn't open it up to certain private interests, much like MTS does out your way.
[01:12] Seth: hey
[01:13] Seth: what do you use for a sore anus?
[01:14] exkalibur: more lube?
Batwings21
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:40 pm

Post by Batwings21 »

r0f wrote: This whole situation is an example of why we need a community-released host/dsp firmware update tool. It would not cause Motorola any loss of legitimate revenue. It would just make right what should be free in the first place. Motorola's buggy firmware is not something the customer should pay for.

<rant over>
I've heard claim that someone already has already successfully created software to do this. Ever hear that before? Any truth to it?
User avatar
Mong
9A247E-211493-9
Posts: 5460
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:29 am
Location: Mesquite TX

Post by Mong »

r0f wrote: My comments above apply only to the ASTRO series radios--NOT the ASTRO25 platform.

For the retards in the group :baby: What are the ASTRO25 VS ASTRO radios?


Is ASTRO25 the newer stuff? IE:: 5000/2500/XTL stuff and the older ASTRO stuff the saber/spectra/3000? Where is the line drawn?
Batwings21
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:40 pm

Post by Batwings21 »

I believe its based on programming software. Astro saber, XTS3k, Astro Spectra and I pretty sure xts3500 are Astro Line. Astro 25 are xts5k, 2.5k,1.5k, sse5000, astro spectra plus, xtl series, plus pm1500, pr1500, mt1500, etc.
User avatar
10-95
living the hamsexy dream
Posts: 765
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:48 pm

Post by 10-95 »

r0f wrote:Mong, nothing personal, but I spent about five weeks writing a HUGE ASTRO GUIDE so questions like yours could be avoided :P

RTFM :baby:

And it's free for download on the main page of Hamsexy! :baby:
User avatar
Mong
9A247E-211493-9
Posts: 5460
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:29 am
Location: Mesquite TX

Post by Mong »

r0f wrote:Mong, nothing personal, but I spent about five weeks writing a HUGE ASTRO GUIDE so questions like yours could be avoided :P

RTFM :baby:


I DLed it, twice. I don't care enough to read a bunch of shit that I have no use for. It was just a simple question.....
User avatar
motorola_otaku
Cock Block
Posts: 6671
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:53 pm
Location: Stinkadena, TX

Post by motorola_otaku »

Mong wrote: I DLed it, twice. I don't care enough to read a bunch of shit that I have no use for. It was just a simple question.....
If experience has taught me anything, it's that what you don't find useful today you might find useful tomorrow. Just saying. :)

Anywho, long story short, the Astro line comprises the out-of-production XTS3000, XTS3500, and Astro Saber portable radios, and the Astro Spectra mobile radio. The Astro25 line comprises all the current-production high-end digital-capable radios, most notably the XTS5000 handheld and the XTL5000 mobile.
And the sign says you got to have a membership card to get inside.
ka8ypy
Administrator
Posts: 3493
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Fine Business and HI HI
Contact:

Post by ka8ypy »

Batwings21 wrote:I believe its based on programming software. Astro saber, XTS3k, Astro Spectra and I pretty sure xts3500 are Astro Line. Astro 25 are xts5k, 2.5k,1.5k, sse5000, astro spectra plus, xtl series, plus pm1500, pr1500, mt1500, etc.
See what Josh said above with one change, it is not based on programming softwarez but on what is current product.

BTW, XTS3500 has it's own f'd up RSS..... :anus:
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen commrade
User avatar
10-95
living the hamsexy dream
Posts: 765
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:48 pm

Post by 10-95 »

Just had a QSO with HS member Tim last night on the Qauntar he put on the air here in the area. Super cool, sounds better than most of the public safety/gov stuff in the area. He was running an EFJ and I was running a 3K with DSP 08.02.02 Nice to finally have a "real" P25 repeater in the area. Maybe we can get him to post some audio from it sometime.
User avatar
Mong
9A247E-211493-9
Posts: 5460
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:29 am
Location: Mesquite TX

Post by Mong »

Glad the capital area is running smooth. What sort of range will it have?



The Charlotte area has a D-star repeater, so any further digital repeaters in this area will probably run with that unless a /\/\ fan has the money, time, tower space, and the desire to bring P-25 to the queen-city.



Yes, I know queen-city sounds :xls:
Post Reply