Why The XTS 5000

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Postby tvsjr » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:06 am

ka8ypy wrote:
tvsjr wrote:
KD8CPX wrote:Webdoc, wanna help a fellow/neighboring EOC operator out when/if you get your hands on any such gear?


I may not be a neighbor... but don't forget your homies down in Texas. :baby:


8 Calls come first....... :baby:


No no... 8 calls come just before 6 calls, which are at the BOTTOM of the list. :baby:

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Postby KC8RYW » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:15 am

The County Sheriff here wants to move to the MARCS system. Hmm.

Give up lowband simplex for 800 trunking.

Given the terrain in the area (hilly), it'd be better to stay with lowband simplex, but what do I know.

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Postby webdoc » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:34 am

KC8RYW wrote:The County Sheriff here wants to move to the MARCS system. Hmm.

Give up lowband simplex for 800 trunking.

Given the terrain in the area (hilly), it'd be better to stay with lowband simplex, but what do I know.


Yeah in your area it does make sense, but here is flat. The problem is OEMA and all of the other gubmint agencies are pushing for interoperable communications, which is a good idea. However there are other ways about doing that in times of need. There are the BSSA vehicles, these vehicles have interconnect boards which you can use to intergconnent any kind of radio to any other kind of radio.

Hell they could interconnect a FRS radio to 800 Mhs trunked system with that system on the BSSA trucks.

They have several of those trucks scattered about Ohio.

But back to the topic, OEMA is stuck on the MARCS system, so if counties want to use grant money from Ohio to buy/imptove communications systems, they are almost forced to start the MARCS integration. I spent a week writing a grant for this not too long ago for our county.
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Postby zlassiter » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:07 am

webdoc wrote:Hell they could interconnect a FRS radio to 800 Mhs trunked system with that system on the BSSA trucks


I'd like to see someone try and hook up a nextel into that just to piss them off.

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Postby KD8CPX » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:40 am

I've heard of places that have conventional repeaters hooked up with some sort of Nextel system in an area close to webdoc and I. Basically a cop can pull up a certain pttid and talk over the repeater... or so he says.
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Postby KD8CPX » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:41 am

By he says.. I mean the cop that I was talking to that loves his Nextel.
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Postby zlassiter » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:02 am

Can anyone say Nextel Sexy?

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Postby KB9SXK » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:02 am

I can plug a nextel in to my ICI. Direct connect sexy. :baby: :wacker:
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Postby motorola_otaku » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:57 am

webdoc wrote:
tvsjr wrote:
KD8CPX wrote:Webdoc, wanna help a fellow/neighboring EOC operator out when/if you get your hands on any such gear?


I may not be a neighbor... but don't forget your homies down in Texas. :baby:

heheh I'll do my best.

For example just at the EOC, if we were to do a full rollout to the MARCS system, there would be 5 VHF Moto mobile rigs, 4 astron power supplies, and a command star lite console, that would become available, not counting the VHF HTs we have at the EOC. Then there is the City Police/dispatch center and the base/mobile radios there, then all the mbile units in the cruisers, and the HTs for the officers, The City FD, with their console and base/mobile radios, yadda yadda.

I estimate just the City of napoleon would clear up about 12 VHF spectra mobile radios w/ astron power supplies, thats just in the EOC, Police station, and FD, not counting the mobile units in the rigs and cruisers. Then there are the 5 repeaters just in the city.

From what I am hearing, if the grant goes through Hancock, Putnam, Van Wert, Mercer, Allan, Auglaize, and a few other counties are trying to do a complete rollout to the MARCS system.

We are planning on a phased rollout, first phase will be the heads of each department (police/fire/EMS/EMA), seconf phase would put the radios in each officer/firefighters rigs/cruisers, and they would all have HTs

I would hope that those guys hang on to some of their old conventional gear. Even if MARCS is the cat's ass in your area and stays up and fully networked 99.99999999% of the time, thanks to the laws of physics you're never, ever going to get the range out of 800 that you get out of VHF and UHF (when all other factors are equal, blah blah), and that makes all the difference should you ever have to fall back on simplex.

If you want to make a case out of it, do some mobile simplex comparisons between VHF, UHF, and 800. Even when P25 isn't a factor, 800 simplex range over pretty much anything except desert sucks balls.
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Postby webdoc » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:27 am

motorola_otaku wrote:
If you want to make a case out of it, do some mobile simplex comparisons between VHF, UHF, and 800. Even when P25 isn't a factor, 800 simplex range over pretty much anything except desert sucks balls.


I agree. Hell they are having problems with the county FD comms as it is, and they are VHF simplex. The MARCS tower that does eist in the county is data only.

What gets me is, when everyone switches over to MARCS. someone is going to be making a buttload of money. Each radio on the system is subject to a $20.00 per month subscription fee for voice, each computer on the system that recieves data is subject to $1500/month. That is if i remember correctly, I am at home right now, took the day off.
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Postby Radio_Cowboy » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:12 am

motorola_otaku wrote:Even when P25 isn't a factor, 800 simplex range over pretty much anything except desert sucks balls.



It still sucks balls out here in the desert. We've tried it for s**ts and grins.
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Postby zlassiter » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:42 am

Yea there is a county near hear that switched to a 800 system within the last few years. Michigan has a statewide 800 system but they wanted their own system (perhaps to compensate for a small...). So they got their own system that tied into the state system.

Problem is... if they have to leave the county they have no radio anymore! If there in a persuit how are they going to contact dispatch? Can anyone say payphone sexy?

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Postby zlassiter » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:57 am

They Call It Meps - and apparently they all don't have it.

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Postby smokeybehr » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:14 am

Rayjk110 wrote:You use ISPERN (155.475 - whatever you guys call it in your own states/jurisdictions). At least that's what happens over here. I think almost every PD in the county has 155.475 in at LEAST 1 of their radios.


We have CLEMARS and CALCORD, but you actually have to change channels on the radio to access it.

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Postby KD8CPX » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:46 pm

The Michigan System is called MPSCS (Michigan Public Safety Communication System). Even if they just tie their system into the MPSCS network, they should still be able to roam out on the main MPSCS network then..

Never heard if ISPERN but Michigan does have a VHF channel that will simulicast with a talkgroup on the MPSCS system I believe all the time, and they can patch it to wherever they need it.
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Postby zlassiter » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:39 pm

The county I am speaking of's radios operate on a completley different type of radios and protocal then MSPCS does. I'm just not going to name the county because the big wigs don't like their stupidity being talked about.

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Postby zlassiter » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:42 pm

Oh and to just add some more fun to the mix. A lighting bolt hit one tower in this county and took out the whole counties communication system - they relied on nextel sexy for backup.

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Postby Mong » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:47 pm

Well can't all the types of 800mhz radios be programmed for conventional? Setting up mutual aid repeaters on the permitted 800mhz mutual aid frequencies is always a good idea. If the TRS gets overloaded or goes down, then there is a backup.

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Postby zlassiter » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:50 pm

Because this counties 800Mhz system is golden and will never fail.

Obviously they have larger egos then their brains.

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Postby KD8CPX » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:03 pm

Mong wrote:Well can't all the types of 800mhz radios be programmed for conventional? Setting up mutual aid repeaters on the permitted 800mhz mutual aid frequencies is always a good idea. If the TRS gets overloaded or goes down, then there is a backup.



They're called ITAC up here. We have I believe 6 ITAC repeaters programmed in plus the ICALL repeater all of which can do talkaround. I also think that they are analog so in theory all 800mHz capable radios P25 or not could use them.
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Postby motorola_otaku » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:20 pm

zlassiter wrote:I'm just not going to name the county because the big wigs don't like their stupidity being talked about.

I'm going to venture a guess and say Oakland County. I seem to recall their pick of vendors being mired in some controversy.
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Postby smokeybehr » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:11 pm

KD8CPX wrote:
Mong wrote:Well can't all the types of 800mhz radios be programmed for conventional? Setting up mutual aid repeaters on the permitted 800mhz mutual aid frequencies is always a good idea. If the TRS gets overloaded or goes down, then there is a backup.



They're called ITAC up here. We have I believe 6 ITAC repeaters programmed in plus the ICALL repeater all of which can do talkaround. I also think that they are analog so in theory all 800mHz capable radios P25 or not could use them.


All 800MHz public safety licenses are REQUIRED to have the ICALL and ITAC channels in the radios. We have more than just the ICALL and ITAC repeaters available to us here in California for mutual aid on 800MHz.

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Postby zlassiter » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:00 pm

All 800MHz public safety licenses are REQUIRED to have the ICALL and ITAC channels in the radios. We have more than just the ICALL and ITAC repeaters available to us here in California for mutual aid on 800MHz.

Ideally they do - in reality the dont. Its what happens when you put a politicians friend in charge of something they don't know about.

Got to love politics.

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Postby Dogwelder » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:10 pm

KD8CPX wrote:The Michigan System is called MPSCS (Michigan Public Safety Communication System). Even if they just tie their system into the MPSCS network, they should still be able to roam out on the main MPSCS network then..

Never heard if ISPERN but Michigan does have a VHF channel that will simulicast with a talkgroup on the MPSCS system I believe all the time, and they can patch it to wherever they need it.


Fenton city in Genesee county also has its own dispatch(as opposed to North County and South County), therefore has its own talkgroups. They still have ITAC, ICALL, and state-wide frequencies in their radios.

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Re: Why The XTS 5000

Postby K8TEK » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:41 pm

Since this thread has been revived, I figured I would correct Keith's figures.

Portable or Mobile Radio $240.00 per unit/per year
Control Station $480.00 per unit/per year

Mobile Data Terminal $4,200.00 per unit/per year ($350.00 per month)
Computer Aided Dispatch $21,000.00 per unit/per year ($1,750.00 per month)
The only problem I have with this is the state makes a ton of money off of MARCS. They have close to 25,000 voice subscribers, they are making nearly $6,000,000/year off them alone. Perhaps they should use that money to upgrade their infrastructure.

They only have 4 voice channels in my area, and at least one is active constantly. Add local law enforcement, fire and ems on that and you are going to have people not able to use the system. This was quite evident during the recent flooding. Health Departments, Hospitals, State Troopers, DOT workers, Department of Natural Resources and numerous other agencies use this system already and 4 voice channels doesn't cut it here. It is a great system, but they are throwing too many users on it and don't have the capacity to handle it yet.

They brag on their website that this system is state of the art, however the control channel is 3400bps. This isn't even a true P25 system.
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Re: Why The XTS 5000

Postby motorola_otaku » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:45 pm

K8TEK wrote:however the control channel is 3400bps.

3600, you mean.. I hope. If it were me, I'd be glad I had analog as an option, assuming they're allowing new analog subscribers.

Indiana's SAFE-T system has the best deal. The state footed the bill on infrastructure, and any qualified local government user in the state gets free access.
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Re: Why The XTS 5000

Postby K8TEK » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:50 pm

motorola_otaku wrote:
K8TEK wrote:however the control channel is 3400bps.

3600, you mean.. I hope. If it were me, I'd be glad I had analog as an option, assuming they're allowing new analog subscribers.

Indiana's SAFE-T system has the best deal. The state footed the bill on infrastructure, and any qualified local government user in the state gets free access.

3600bps, sorry. Nope, all IMBE voice.
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Re: Why The XTS 5000

Postby webdoc » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:53 pm

Thx for posting the corrections Tim, when I made that post I was working off of memory, which since the stroke isn't what it once was.

Tracy (the EMA Director), and I, both have the same problem, the State is making a killing. The grant we applied for to pay for the partial roolout the state wants us to have, half of it is to upgrade the tower we have as it is data only at this time.

If I am not mistaken, one of the tower sites you use is at the BGSU broadcast tower.
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Re: Why The XTS 5000

Postby K8TEK » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:11 pm

webdoc wrote:Thx for posting the corrections Tim, when I made that post I was working off of memory, which since the stroke isn't what it once was.

Tracy (the EMA Director), and I, both have the same problem, the State is making a killing. The grant we applied for to pay for the partial roolout the state wants us to have, half of it is to upgrade the tower we have as it is data only at this time.

If I am not mistaken, one of the tower sites you use is at the BGSU broadcast tower.

According to radio reference, there is a site in Neapolis. They say it is in Henry County, but I have no clue where that is at.

You are correct, though. The site I am talking about is BGSU in Belmore. I am now picking up Oakwood Correctional Facility, which is odd. Nobody using their talkgroups should be affiliated with this site.

I tried calling you on the repeater today.
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Re: Why The XTS 5000

Postby webdoc » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:33 pm

K8TEK wrote:
webdoc wrote:Thx for posting the corrections Tim, when I made that post I was working off of memory, which since the stroke isn't what it once was.

Tracy (the EMA Director), and I, both have the same problem, the State is making a killing. The grant we applied for to pay for the partial roolout the state wants us to have, half of it is to upgrade the tower we have as it is data only at this time.

If I am not mistaken, one of the tower sites you use is at the BGSU broadcast tower.

According to radio reference, there is a site in Neapolis. They say it is in Henry County, but I have no clue where that is at.

You are correct, though. The site I am talking about is BGSU in Belmore. I am now picking up Oakwood Correctional Facility, which is odd. Nobody using their talkgroups should be affiliated with this site.

I tried calling you on the repeater today.


Hehe Neapolis is actually in Lucas County, 5.5 miles almost straight north of Grand Rapids. It is about 3/4 miles n.e of the interesection of Henry, Fulton and Lucas Counties.

I wasn't by the radio today much, haven't been out much since my trip to the hospital last week.
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Re: Why The XTS 5000

Postby K8TEK » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:36 pm

That's where I thought Neapolis was. Perhaps they should put up something in Florida?
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Re: Why The XTS 5000

Postby webdoc » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:45 pm

There has been some tak about the WNDH broadcast tower north of Holgate, But then who knows. Personally, if they want something centrally located Malinta would be the ideal place, it is almost exactly center of the county, thats where I have been telling them for years they needed to put the county repeaters.

The County and City of Napoleon are going together to put up a 300 ft tower behing the EOC, will wait to see how that works out.
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Re: Why The XTS 5000

Postby KB9SXK » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:44 am

motorola_otaku wrote:
K8TEK wrote:however the control channel is 3400bps.

3600, you mean.. I hope. If it were me, I'd be glad I had analog as an option, assuming they're allowing new analog subscribers.

Indiana's SAFE-T system has the best deal. The state footed the bill on infrastructure, and any qualified local government user in the state gets free access.



Yep, we even get SOME free subscriber equipment.
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Re: Why The XTS 5000

Postby punkasschump » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:36 am

I've had moto radios ever since my 1st mx-300s & the 5K is by far the best portble they've ever put out.

you're just a Broke-ass, can't afford it, shit-talk'n jealous 5k hater you are!! here's a radio more suitable for you:

Image


go wash ur ball sack!!! ur polluting the forum!!!

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Re: Why The XTS 5000

Postby KC9UZB » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:53 am

...wow

stick to the south siiiiiiide ;)
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