p25, trbo, or dstar. what to do..?

[kd8eyf]

im thinking about buying one of the following.....

vhf P25 to talk to handful of people on a non-linked local high profile machine with very good coverage

Dstar mobile/ht to talk to a few more people locally on a Internet connected d-star repeater with ok coverage

a trbo uhf repeater, set it up on my roof of my house

my guesstimates
p25 saber 200-300+$
XTS $500-1000+
astro spectra 200+
dstar $500+
xpr8300 $1500-$2000 + with accessories

astro saber option - i already have a system saber III, so the only thing i would need to deal with is the software.
i don't have any xts/spectra anything so theres the added noobiness to take into account with the right cables, head, speaker, software, etc... The local p25 repeater is very tall but i hardly heard any activity on it.

i read that dstar drops out worse than others, and i dont care much for the look of the icom radios, not tough enough, but its the only dual band option, which is convenient. the dstar machine has a smaller footprint, but is more active, and has the benefit of linking to other repeaters.

the repeater is kinda expensive but if i hold off and save $$ its would be doable. trbo DMR is really taking off in the band, and i wanna be a part of it. i can only get the antenna up 40 feet. so coverage would suck, but its easy to link one of the many trbo networks all over the USA. i already have a xpr6550 HT for work and scanning.

what to do.. what to do..
thoughts?

[ka8ypy]

XTL Mobile - $600 - $1500
APX Portables $2400 +
APX Mobiles - not on the used market yet

Both of the APXs are dual band

If you aren't going to use all of the "bells and whistles" of D-Star, then it's just another over price piece of amateur gear. When in digital mode you can't monitor the channel on analog like you can for P25 (not sure about TRBO).

[motorola_otaku]

P25 Astro Sabers go for sub-$125 on Batboard most of the time. When SCFR was blowing out model 2 ex-DOE VHF radios I got 2 for that price. Be patient and watch the usual venues and you can get on P25 very affordably.

My big beef with D-STAR is not the protocol itself, but the fact that the mobiles cost a kilobuck yet still have the same shitty intermod-prone barn-door receiver front ends as every other Japanese ham radio. If it were ever possible to buy a D-STAR aftermarket module and install it in a commercial radio I would look into it then, but until then.. nothx.

I guess I would ask if you just wanted to talk and play digital, or were you interested in learning the art of repeater construction while playing digital? Don't get me wrong, there is no shame at all in throwing up a backyard repeater - I did it for years and it is a great educational experience to prepare you for the time when you gain real site access. But if you want it to work at all you have to be willing to spend the $$$ on good hardware. LMR400, a J-pole, and a duplexer some "tuned" with a wattmeter won't cut it. At the scant minimum you need 1/2'' Heliax feed line (Ultraflex is perfectly acceptable and easier to work with than regular 1/2''), a good commercial fiberglass antenna from Andrew Decibel, PCTEL Maxrad, Comprod, Antenex, or one of those guys (and a Decibel folded dipole array if at all possible - they beat fiberglass antennas in full-duplex repeater applications every time), and a duplexer that has been properly tuned on a return loss analyzer or a spectrum analyzer/tracking generator. Those items will aid greatly in squeezing every last square inch of coverage out of your system, but you'll have to be patient with the hamfest offerings in your area if you don't want to end up spending another half-kilobuck or more in addition to the cost of the repeater itself.

[kd8eyf]

thanks for the pointers, im gonna start repeater buildin..

[mancow]

Don't let the look of the Icom D Star IC92AD fool you. I would say it's more rugged than an XTS5K-R due to its smaller size and weight but equally dense construction. The thing is just a solid little brick and the battery seems to last forever. The RF performance is excellent and is every bit as sensitive as any XTS. The only thing I dislike is the audio output power is a bit weak, especially when operating in D STAR mode.

[kd8eyf]

well a quick update
i got one of the sabers from SCFR cheap. out P25 machine works really good here in Detroit. 2 bad theres only 3 people on it
The i got a nice new uhf trbo repeater w/ Decibel folded dipole / celwave duplexer ( wife is gonna kill me )
Thing is the repeater coordinator for my state says hes having trouble getting a coordinated freq . Waiting for 2 months. I really don't wanna have to keep retuning this duplexer since i have to pay someone to do .
So what do i do? just pick a random repeater freq thats listed not in use in the area, listen for a while? if not hear anything tune the duplexer and setup the repeater and hope nobody complains? The things only 50 some feet up so its not like its gonna be getting out long distances.

[burner50]

NXDN


Mixed mode repeater ftw

[Josh]

well a quick update
i got one of the sabers from SCFR cheap. out P25 machine works really good here in Detroit. 2 bad theres only 3 people on it
The i got a nice new uhf trbo repeater w/ Decibel folded dipole / celwave duplexer ( wife is gonna kill me )
Thing is the repeater coordinator for my state says hes having trouble getting a coordinated freq . Waiting for 2 months. I really don't wanna have to keep retuning this duplexer since i have to pay someone to do .
So what do i do? just pick a random repeater freq thats listed not in use in the area, listen for a while? if not hear anything tune the duplexer and setup the repeater and hope nobody complains? The things only 50 some feet up so its not like its gonna be getting out long distances.

There's even 3 people on it anymore?

I used to have VHF P25 stuff, but my only use for it was that Detroit P25 Ham repeater and since it is more or less dead, I sold off all my stuff.

[motorola_otaku]

NXDN


Mixed mode repeater ftw

Any P25 repeater will do mixed-mode too. If the Detroit guys were naive enough to make theirs P25-only well, that's their misfortune.

[kd8eyf]

they know what there doing. NBFM / P25 simultaneous

[mr.syntrx]

NXDN


Mixed mode repeater ftw

Any P25 repeater will do mixed-mode too. If the Detroit guys were naive enough to make theirs P25-only well, that's their misfortune.

ASTRO only is a good thing. Around here there's tons of repeaters hardly anyone uses anyway, and with mixed mode you get old farts who don't understand P25 bitching about "intermod" or "encryption" and keying up over the top of digital users.

[kd8eyf]

Yo yo so i be chillin in the crib with my trbo and all my hoomies trippin cuz i be talkin all hamsexy and shit to my bros in new zeland sounding like they be down the street, yeah i think dis almost as good as echolink

my antenna is a db402 and i feel could use a upgrade. the going rate for the eight bay db420? I seen used for 500+ shipping. Seems a bit high for a used antenna? And reccommendation on vendors that sell new

[motorola_otaku]

Tessco is pretty much your best/only source for new. Any of the Ebay sellers will you on shipping to make up for the sale price markdown.

I get all of my Decibel antennas from hamfests. I walked away from the last one with two DB413s and a DB420 for $200.

[WTF]

Tessco is pretty much your best/only source for new. Any of the Ebay sellers will you on shipping to make up for the sale price markdown.

I get all of my Decibel antennas from hamfests. I walked away from the last one with two DB413s and a DB420 for $200.

Keep a look out for me, I need a UHF antenna for a repeater.

[motorola_otaku]

Tessco is pretty much your best/only source for new. Any of the Ebay sellers will you on shipping to make up for the sale price markdown.

I get all of my Decibel antennas from hamfests. I walked away from the last one with two DB413s and a DB420 for $200.

Keep a look out for me, I need a UHF antenna for a repeater.

You've done Dayton before, right? Aren't they all over the place up there?

[kd8eyf]

P25 Astro Sabers go for sub-$125 on Batboard most of the time. When SCFR was blowing out model 2 ex-DOE VHF radios I got 2 for that price. Be patient and watch the usual venues and you can get on P25 very affordably.

My big beef with D-STAR is not the protocol itself, but the fact that the mobiles cost a kilobuck yet still have the same shitty intermod-prone barn-door receiver front ends as every other Japanese ham radio. If it were ever possible to buy a D-STAR aftermarket module and install it in a commercial radio I would look into it then, but until then.. nothx.

I guess I would ask if you just wanted to talk and play digital, or were you interested in learning the art of repeater construction while playing digital? Don't get me wrong, there is no shame at all in throwing up a backyard repeater - I did it for years and it is a great educational experience to prepare you for the time when you gain real site access. But if you want it to work at all you have to be willing to spend the $$$ on good hardware. LMR400, a J-pole, and a duplexer some "tuned" with a wattmeter won't cut it. At the scant minimum you need 1/2'' Heliax feed line (Ultraflex is perfectly acceptable and easier to work with than regular 1/2''), a good commercial fiberglass antenna from Andrew Decibel, PCTEL Maxrad, Comprod, Antenex, or one of those guys (and a Decibel folded dipole array if at all possible - they beat fiberglass antennas in full-duplex repeater applications every time), and a duplexer that has been properly tuned on a return loss analyzer or a spectrum analyzer/tracking generator. Those items will aid greatly in squeezing every last square inch of coverage out of your system, but you'll have to be patient with the hamfest offerings in your area if you don't want to end up spending another half-kilobuck or more in addition to the cost of the repeater itself.

With the help of a few friends I got a repeater online and moved from the house to a nice site. Took your advice and used only commercial qualtiy components. Spent more money on the antenna duplexer and feedline then the actual repeater itself. http://tinyurl.com/7vbcd8q Thanks for the inspiration/motivation motorola_otaku :)

[motorola_otaku]

Fuckin' A man, right on. Does my heart good to see someone put the effort and expenditure into doing it right.

When you start getting around to other sites and see some of the crap the crowd tries to run it'll make you sick.

[Josh]

I live in Auburn Hills... what is your repeater set up for?

[escomm]

Seems that repeater may have a higher insured replacement value than the entire city of Detroit

[kd8eyf]

Its DMR , 443.950+ CC 1 S1 DMR-MARC / S2 Michgan Repeaters only

[Josh]

Its DMR , 443.950+ CC 1 S1 DMR-MARC / S2 Michgan Repeaters only

As soon as I get DMR-MARC to assign me an ID, I'll give it a whirl. Monitoring it from here, I know I'm within range, but so far haven't heard a thing, but I haven't been monitoring all that much.

[kd8eyf]

Its DMR , 443.950+ CC 1 S1 DMR-MARC / S2 Michgan Repeaters only

As soon as I get DMR-MARC to assign me an ID, I'll give it a whirl. Monitoring it from here, I know I'm within range, but so far haven't heard a thing, but I haven't been monitoring all that much.

if you can hear analog 147.2 or 443.625 (which is linked with 442.175) you should have no problemo